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Vipre, I don't think anyone is trying to argue that driving with DSC off is safer all the time. The system as designed can be useful and improve safety. But what you are failing to understand is the shortcoming of this system in winter conditions. I will give you just one example that I experience quite often. By the park I drive my dogs to, there is a 90 degree sweeping banked left hand turn. When it snows, this road gets pretty nasty as it is in the country in a not highly trafficked area. When you enter this turn and the car starts to slide (in the direction of the banking), you could EASILY power out and maintain a straight line through the turn. However, the DSC system in this car simply does not allow this to happen. It will cut enough power that you will continue down the embankment. The only way to recover in the cx-3 is to slow down even more, but in slippery/icy situations this response is not always optimal. The safety nannies serve a purpose, but I should be allowed to turn them off.
 

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It doesn’t really make any difference to me what people choose to do as long as somebody who’s pushing the boundaries doesn’t collect one of my daughters or myself while out minding our own business. However, I think Vipre has got it more right than anybody trying to disable these highly effective safety systems. When conditions are made difficult by snow I suggest the best course is fit winter tyres and leave the VSC/TRC on. IMHO.
 

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Interesting read over a couple beers (as I’m doing now lol). For this subject I think it’s just each to their own. There’s good and bad points depending on the driver’s experience and confidence.

I don’t have much experience in a smaller vehicle as all of my previous ones have been bigger selectable 4x4’s that can switch on the fly.

That being said, I’ve seen SO many 4x4’s rolled or in a ditch because people cannot drive to the conditions even with or without the technology. It didn’t help them either way.

Black ice, slush, deep snow doesn’t care who you are so, bottom line is, if you drive like an idiot, winter is going to get you.

If you’re confident with disabling safety features and can handle it, great! You’re probably safer to you and everyone else. I always turned off the safety’s in a 4x4 but like to have them turned on in an AWD.

There’s no right or wrong was as anyone can be screwed by over-confidence.

“Why can’t we just all get along?” -Jack Nicholson, 1996 Mars Attacks
:D
 

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When conditions are made difficult by snow I suggest the best course is fit winter tyres and leave the VSC/TRC on. IMHO.
I have stated multiple times in multiple threads that winter tires are critical for safe winter driving. I have dedicated winters on my CX-3. I also have a lot of experience with winter driving in many different types of vehicles. In my current stable we have a 2005 Speed Miata (RWD), 1989 Jeep Comanche (4WD), 2007 Hyundai Accent (FWD), 2016 CX-3 (AWD), and a 2017 V60 (AWD). I don't know what it takes for someone to acknowledge that the programming for the DSC MAY NOT BE HELPFUL in certain conditions. In the V60, you also can not turn off DSC. However, you can lower its level of intervention by setting it to Sport Mode. And guess what, I have never had the car cut power to the extremes that the CX-3 goes to. And this is NOT due to the car being more powerful and feeling different, as Vipre mentioned earlier. It is simply better programming, which gives me more confidence in winter driving because it doesn't limit how I CHOOSE to respond to the given road conditions.

After driving the Jeep and CX-3 back to back in the winter, I know full well the advantages of modern safety systems. However, lets not be naive and fail to acknowledge they have limitations.
 

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**** you are dense. Let's do this dog and pony show again...

And you're still missing my point that experience on other platforms may be completely irrelevant. Why don't you try it and prove that your hypotheses work instead of speculating? You might be right, but also you could be wrong.
Experience on other platforms is not irrelevant. Do you think all cars are designed in a vacuum? The same fixes VERY frequently work across platforms from various brands. Was I stating it these ides would 100% work? Nope. But they are great starting points.

If you had read this thread from the beginning you'd know why I haven't tried it yet. The reason (again) is that I'm researching new dailys and I won't buy a car that can't completely disable stability control. Right now I'm leaning toward a Forester XT even though it's larger.


Obviously, some here need some education if they think they can predict and react faster than a computer. Not even mentioning being able to apply brakes independently to each wheel as needed. Having fun is one thing. Normal driving is something else entirely. I was describing the exact situation someone else was saying they were afraid the DSC system would cause a problem in. I firmly dispute that claim. This is exactly the scenario DSC is designed to help in. If you think exceeding the traction limits of your tires is helping pull you through a turn in an emergency maneuver, you're simply wrong. How often is a Scandinavian Flick needed in an emergency? I will accept a claim that it is possible the system cuts "too much" power in an effort to maintain traction and stability, but I think that's going to be a pretty hard claim to back up with proof.
Did anyone say they can predict faster than a computer? Nope. But the computer also can't see what a human can see, can't turn the wheel, can't make the decision to use acceleration instead of brakes. It's not an AI driver, it's a basic set of paramaters braking one wheel or many based on some limited data it's receiving.

As to your comment of " If you think exceeding the traction limits of your tires is helping pull you through a turn in an emergency maneuver, you're simply wrong." There is some irony in this comment. I'm guessing you've never been to, let alone competed in any driving event on snow/ice have you? I'll answer it for you, you haven't. Because if you have you would realize that YES INDEED you often can pull yourself through a corner using power.

May be better off? No. There is plenty of empirical evidence to prove that accident rates have decreased significantly with these systems enabled and it's better to leave them on in all but a very few special use cases. I think you'll be hard-pressed to find any examples of DSC being a cause of an accident. Go ahead and google it for yourself. I did and found nothing. Auto manufacturers provide guidance on how/when to disable traction control, but it is never recommended by any manufacturer I've ever seen to turn off DSC for street use. Seriously... Try Google and see if you can find anywhere from a reputable source that says when it's a good time to ever turn it off except for at the race track? Even at the track, I've provided a source that says it's dumb to turn it off there, too, unless you're a professional race driver.
I stated some drivers may be better off. Again SOME DRIVERS MAY BE BETTER OFF. (And we were talking in some conditions.) Based on the next part of your post below, we know that doesn't apply to you.

Yes I agree if you ever go to a race track, you better leave stability control on. Your source is geared towards people like you, so yes you should listen to it. FYI that is talking about traditional dry pavement racing, where oversteer is typically losing you time anyway. If I'm running at Grattan or Waterford Hills or Gingerman in a car, I don't bother to turn stability control off, unless I'm noticing it really interfering, which is rare if you are smooth. But again, everyone in this thread wanting to disable it is asking for it for snowy conditions.

I repeat: everyone in this thread wanting to disable stability control is asking for it for snowy conditions.

And congrats to you, too, on being able to control it in every situation you encountered. I owned a 2002 WRX with a 5-speed myself and had it for four years. It eventually put me into a tree. I was over-confident in the car's (and my own) capability and was probably driving too fast for conditions. I changed lanes after a heavy, wet snowfall. The lane I was in was not recently plowed and had 4-5 inches of slush. The lane was changing to was recently plowed. I was expecting it to pull to one side when I changed lanes, but not to the extent that it did. The sudden change in traction between the two sides of the vehicle put it into an unrecoverable skid. I couldn't react quickly enough to avoid the skid. Brakes were the first instinct, and had no effect. Gas and steering into the skid equally had no effect because I had overcome the limits of available traction. DSC and traction control systems could have helped in this situation, though, certainly not a guarantee by any means. You have your anecdotal evidence and I have mine.
You lost control changing lanes in an AWD car that's literally known to be a snow tank. I think this is more a statement on your driving than on stability control systems.

I've never experienced anything like what you describe with difficulties changing lanes or with rutted snow, up to 5-6 inches deep anyway, even with the crappy factory all-season tires on my 16" wheels. Things could certainly be different if you're rolling on the slightly wider factory 18" wheels. It should also be noted that my CX-3 is the 2016 Touring model and does not have any lane-keeping assists/warnings which can affect what you're describing and I have heard complaints like those on other vehicles with those systems, though I haven't looked for complaints like that on CX-3 specifically. And this is not a discussion of whether or not the car "needs" DSC. No car "needs" it. But you are better off with it. Even in a WRX. If you weren't better off with it, Subaru wouldn't be putting it on their present models. Of course, part of that is due to regulatory reasons. Some countries require it now for new cars, so it ends up in all markets.
Again, wasn't me describing it, but others have mentioned it in this very thread, and on other threads, both on this forum and others, in both the CX-3 and CX-5.

Also automakers are putting stability control on every model because they are required to by law.

If you guys want to continue to delude yourselves that you're better off with DSC turned off in everyday street use, by all means, go for it. Just hope your insurance companies don't find out about it if you ever get in a wreck which is statistically more likely to happen when it's off.
Nobody is arguing to leave it off "All the time." I simply made the appoint that it wasn't some necessary, you are going to die without it feature.

I live in Northern Michigan and if we have a foot of un-plowed snow on the ground, yes I want stability control off, the car is going to crab as it moves through the rutted deep snow, and I don't need stability control fighting it and cutting power the whole time.
 

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I guess I fall into the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" category. If the car is driving normally with all safety mechanisms engaged, I say "Leave It Alone!" When you start experimenting and pushing the boundaries of what is intended and what is designed into the car, I just hope you stay the Hell away from public roads. I might be walking alongside one of them with my dog beside me and I really don't want to be taken out quite yet (but at 82, I would guess that mother nature will do the job herself one of these days without your help.
 

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Is that language really necessary for you to make your point? :confused:

We get it. You disagree.
Regardless of how you say it, take a look at how dismissive everyone was when this issue was brought up. Valid reasons were brought up for why having the option to disable DSC in winter conditions can be beneficial. The response was basically "you are wrong, the system works as intended." Personally I notice this behavior a lot at work, particularly in the engineering community. Sometimes the textbook/binary yes or no option does not work. Life is more complicated. Sometimes you have to acknowledge that there are more variables in your equation that are harder to control for.
 

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**** you are dense. Let's do this dog and pony show again...


You’re entitled to your opinion and so is he but there is a standard of conduct and regard that is expected from every member.

This kind of outburst is not acceptable and if you breech the rules again you will be banned.
 

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Regardless of how you say it, take a look at how dismissive everyone was when this issue was brought up. Valid reasons were brought up for why having the option to disable DSC in winter conditions can be beneficial. The response was basically "you are wrong, the system works as intended." Personally I notice this behavior a lot at work, particularly in the engineering community. Sometimes the textbook/binary yes or no option does not work. Life is more complicated. Sometimes you have to acknowledge that there are more variables in your equation that are harder to control for.
I Know we are mainly adults but there may be younger viewers or people that just find it unpleasant. We do not condone that kind of rhetoric even if you agree with the point.
 

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You’re entitled to your opinion and so is he but there is a standard of conduct and regard that is expected from every member.

This kind of outburst is not acceptable and if you breech the rules again you will be banned.
So you quoted it again? lol. In all honesty I thought the forum UI would automatically sensor it something like f***, as other forums I'm on do, so I didn't even bother to look to see if it had.

He is entitled to his opinion, but this thread is not "Do you think disabling stability control is a good idea?" This thread is about figuring out a way to disable stability control. We're 5 pages in now and still getting replies that are the equivalent of "just leave your car stock." Even after valid reasons are given, (for example being able to turn it off in off-road/close course scenarios, we still get every third reply being, "don't mess with it." I've honestly never been on such an enthusiast deplete forum, (heck even the Jeep Patriot forum for my wife's car has more people modifying, and improving their vehicles.)
 

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Calling somebody dense doesn’t get filtered in any forum. Look, the f word doesn’t bother me but it does bother some people and it just isn’t appropriate no matter how frustrating you find something. If you didn’t notice whether it got sensored, you should have but you wouldn’t need to if you didn’t write it. A forum is a place for discussion and in some cases people don’t realise the implications of what they propose. I don’t think the VSC should be disabled either albeit I wouldn’t get so emotive about it unless of course someone gets hurt. Certainly here, if a vehicle got damaged and people got injured, there could be insurance and criminal implications if it was found that one of the safety systems was disabled.

Anyway, let’s draw a line under it and get back to virtual tyre kicking. We should be having a beer, not falling out. Nothing matters that much.
 

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Anchorman, have you ever driven the cx-3 in deep snow?
 

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Anchorman, have you ever driven the cx-3 in deep snow?
Speaking of deep snow, this was 2 days after I picked up my CX3 :crying:
Didn't have time yet to put on new winter tires so that wasn't fun lol.

Come to think of it, that was the same day Calgary had a 50-car pile up over a bridge in the SE...whoops!
Some called it "The Meeting of the Summer Tires Club"
 

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Anchorman, have you ever driven the cx-3 in deep snow?
It depends what you call deep. I’ve had it rubbing under the floor pan so maybe six inches. Quite deep I suppose, why?
 

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Speaking of deep snow, this was 2 days after I picked up my CX3 :crying:
Didn't have time yet to put on new winter tires so that wasn't fun lol.

Come to think of it, that was the same day Calgary had a 50-car pile up over a bridge in the SE...whoops!
Some called it "The Meeting of the Summer Tires Club"
That looks like a lot of fun! ;) Keep us updated on how your car handles all that snow!


Anchorman, I looked up the snowfall for Derbyshire, and it looks like on average you guys get like 3-4 snow days in Jan and Feb with snowfall topping out at less than 4 cm. Honestly, this little car is a tank in snow for the most part! But in my opinion, you really need to feel DSC activate when you are not expecting it, and see how badly/poorly it cuts power, to really be able to comment. Do I think the safety systems make driving safer for everyone? Yes. But again, these systems are far from perfect and having the ability to shut them off when needed should be a no brainer. That is what this thread was about. It also seems like in the UK you were able to shut off "VSC" by just holding the button longer. That's all I'm asking for man. Mazda, are you listening??? Haha
 

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That looks like a lot of fun! ;) Keep us updated on how your car handles all that snow!
Hah! It was when the tires got put on. It handled great and I was more confident for sure. Lately its just been a wet soggy mess as it warmed up considerably.

I have to drive a stretch of highway called Stoney Trail (@dean would know all about this one lol) early in the morning everyday when it usually the coldest.
If you are not watching out, you can lose it even doing 50 km/hr at any given time as there are quite a few open stretches that snow just blows across that people misjudge a lot. I've had to just keep the wheel straight at times and hope that I'm still on the road when it disappears in a snow gust for a bit lol (fortunately those aren't too too often).

The little CX did just as well as my Jeep 4x4 with no issues. Heavy snow on the road it was straight and solid (a bit of chattering due to ruts).
Around the bends you can feel the AWD etc doing it's thing keeping me in line when it was bordering on the tires giving a bit of slip.

To be honest I never really push any car to seriously to test the limits; so I've not had the over/under power and correction feeling of the safety features putting me in danger (as per this thread).
I disable things in the Jeep as I had been driving it for years and know that thing inside out. For now, I don't touch any buttons on the CX and just let it keep me on the road.
Perhaps next snow season I may feel different about it when I've had plenty of time to know what the car's systems will and won't do.

In relation to this thread, I think the average driver if the CX3 would do great as long as you pair the car with decent high quality winter tires. Definitely worth it to spend the extra bit of cash.
There really is a "HA-HA" feeling passing other drivers on a hill, around a corner without losing it, and off the line at a light...THAT's when its fun for me lol!
Overall...excellent AWD car for the snow so far (as an A-B driver).
 

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Calling somebody dense doesn’t get filtered in any forum. Look, the f word doesn’t bother me but it does bother some people and it just isn’t appropriate no matter how frustrating you find something. If you didn’t notice whether it got sensored, you should have but you wouldn’t need to if you didn’t write it. A forum is a place for discussion and in some cases people don’t realise the implications of what they propose. I don’t think the VSC should be disabled either albeit I wouldn’t get so emotive about it unless of course someone gets hurt. Certainly here, if a vehicle got damaged and people got injured, there could be insurance and criminal implications if it was found that one of the safety systems was disabled.

Anyway, let’s draw a line under it and get back to virtual tyre kicking. We should be having a beer, not falling out. Nothing matters that much.
You are right, calling someone dense doesn't get filtered. ;) A forum indeed is a place for discussion, and threads have specific topics, this one was about figuring out HOW to disable stability control, not whether a bunch of old codgers thought it was a good idea or not. At this point it's become people having to justify wanting to do what would be an extremely basic "mod" on pretty much any other car forum. If someone suggested putting a snail or even some cams in this car I think some of your heads would explode. (By the way aftermarket ND MX-5 cams will work in a CX-3, already talked to Orange Virus about it.)
 

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You are right, calling someone dense doesn't get filtered. ;) A forum indeed is a place for discussion, and threads have specific topiecs, this one was about figuring out HOW to disable stability control, not whether a bunch of old codgers thought it was a good idea or not. At this point it's become people having to justify wanting to do what would be an extremely basic "mod" on pretty much any other car forum. If someone suggested putting a snail or even some cams in this car I think some of your heads would explode. (By the way aftermarket ND MX-5 cams will work in a CX-3, already talked to Orange Virus about it.)
I’m not really concerned whether you are just showing off or plain ignorant. If you want to stay on the forum you need to get a grip of your manners.
 

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Anchorman, have you ever driven the cx-3 in deep snow?
It depends what you call deep. I’ve had it rubbing under the floor pan so maybe six inches. Quite deep I suppose, why?
Anchorman, I looked up the snowfall for Derbyshire, and it looks like on average you guys get like 3-4 snow days in Jan and Feb with snowfall topping out at less than 4 cm. Honestly, this little car is a tank in snow for the most part! But in my opinion, you really need to feel DSC activate when you are not expecting it, and see how badly/poorly it cuts power, to really be able to comment.
I thought that might be what you were eluding to but there are several flaws in your comments. Firstly, you don’t need any snow at all to understand how the VSC works, you only need a low friction surface and we get plenty of ice in winter. The next is your failure to consider that not everybody is a “regular Joe” when it comes to VSC and the associated systems and I was involved in vehicle testing and dynamics for 17 years. I’ve been on every testing ground in Europe and you cannot test brakes without testing ABS, TRC and VSC. I’m sure i’ve forgotten more than most people know on these subjects. Next, if you are going to Google a subject you have to know what you are Googling to get the right answer because while there might be an average snowfall in Derbyshire of 3-4 days and of up to 40mm, you failed to identify that North Derbyshire where I live is known as the Peak District for a very good reason. The hills are nothing like the mountain ranges of the US but it is the first ridge of hill after the Atlantic and as the air is forced over them it condenses and unloads whatever it brought off the ocean. I have been on early shifts last week and didn’t get chance to respond but I did download the road reports from around my area (my town of Chapel-en-le-Frith is shortened to Chapel in them). You will see that we were cut off by snow and I’ve added a couple of dash cam screenshots of the conditions I came home in on Thursday. Never read a book by its cover and never take a condescending attitude over somebody or something you haven’t really got an understanding of as it can make a fool out of you.







 
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