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1. I can't test as I haven't bought yet. (I won't buy a vehicle I can't disable stability control on.) I'm hear doing research on the CX-3. If this is figured out my plan is to buy one, lower it, get a header fabbed, and possibly do cams from Orange Virus.

2. Same as 1, I can't answer this one as of yet.

3. I believe you missed the point of my Subaru posts. It was not to try to duplicate they things they've done, it was that they have threads and people actually trying various ways to disable. That aside trying some of the same things they've tried would be a good starting point.

4. This really has no point here, as we aren't comparing AWD systems, we're talking disabling stability control. My current daily driver is FWD until wheelspin is detected (I can lock in 4wd) and it drifts quite well, even when I don't have it locked. Disabling stability control also allows it to get through way more things off road than when it's on. There are hills I can't get up with it on, that I can literally stop on, then continue with stability control off.

5. Yes being able to disable DSC could make it nice in certain situations. I too have previously owned a Subaru (WRX). It didn't even have TC or stability control, and it didn't need it, even with much more power. For me being able to turn off the nannies is a requirement as I'm a 30+ year old kid, and I'm going to play in the snow with whatever my daily is.

6. ok.

7. It's a 3000GT VR4.
 

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You can disable TCS but not DSC. The car cuts power in DSC (it is very obvious) and it does that even when you turn off TCS. I think in the Euro spec Cx-3 you can turn off both systems.
 

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1. I can't test as I haven't bought yet. (I won't buy a vehicle I can't disable stability control on.) I'm hear doing research on the CX-3. If this is figured out my plan is to buy one, lower it, get a header fabbed, and possibly do cams from Orange Virus.

2. Same as 1, I can't answer this one as of yet.

3. I believe you missed the point of my Subaru posts. It was not to try to duplicate they things they've done, it was that they have threads and people actually trying various ways to disable. That aside trying some of the same things they've tried would be a good starting point.

4. This really has no point here, as we aren't comparing AWD systems, we're talking disabling stability control. My current daily driver is FWD until wheelspin is detected (I can lock in 4wd) and it drifts quite well, even when I don't have it locked. Disabling stability control also allows it to get through way more things off road than when it's on. There are hills I can't get up with it on, that I can literally stop on, then continue with stability control off.

5. Yes being able to disable DSC could make it nice in certain situations. I too have previously owned a Subaru (WRX). It didn't even have TC or stability control, and it didn't need it, even with much more power. For me being able to turn off the nannies is a requirement as I'm a 30+ year old kid, and I'm going to play in the snow with whatever my daily is.

6. ok.

7. It's a 3000GT VR4.
1. This question was directed at those already commenting that the DSC cannot be turned off on USDM (maybe all North American?) models. While it wouldn't necessarily surprise me if true, given all the other weird regional differences on these, do we really know for certain that this is true or is it just a feeling we have? The evidence presented so far has been one person confirming it by saying his car "freaks out" when trying to do donuts. Do we know that "freaking out" means it's the DSC/TSC system doing stuff or that it's just the nature of the particular AWD setup this car employs? It's likely to be some combination of the two, but I'd be willing to lay a heavier share of the blame on the relatively weak engine and AWD system rather than the DSC. I haven't looked into it, but it's possible that DSC systems, if equipped, are not allowed to be turned off by law here in the US in the name of safety.

2. Same as #1 .

3. My point there is that you may be barking up the wrong tree looking at what the Subaru guys are doing. Two different systems with different sensor arrays and different control logic. At best, it might give some ideas of the type of signals you can look at, but the array of signals employed here may be very different. You'd probably be better off doing some research on Mazda's TCS/DSC system to find out precisely what signals they are using to control their system. What Subaru or anyone else is doing may be entirely irrelevant.

4. Ah, but I think you're missing the point with my discussion on the differences in our drivetrain... I bring it up because I suspect the lacking engine horsepower and the way our AWD system works in the CX-3 are possibly more to blame for its weak ability to do donuts and "super dorif-tooooo" than the DSC system. i.e.: I don't think the DSC system is necessarily the problem you guys are trying to "correct."

So far, no one has been able to confirm for us if the TCS/DSC indicator is flashing when trying to do these donuts to indicate if it is, in fact, actively trying to straighten out the car even with the TCS button off. All we've heard so far is "the car freaks out." What does that mean, exactly? How do we know for sure that the DSC is not disabled? There's no indicator light that I've found for any CX-3 trim sold in any region to confirm DSC is off, yet others outside the US say they've disabled it. How do they know it's off there but not here? Proof seems lacking. Other cars like Subarus and the Speed 6 have very different setups and may explain, at least in part, why they don't see the same behaviors while drifting with those even on other cars with TCS/DSC systems. My Forester had both systems and I had no trouble drifting that sled around and I didn't have to disable anything to make it do so. The full-time AWD was much more predictable and smooth than our part-time setup when trying to do stuff like this.

What you're describing with your daily driver is a problem with the traction control system in your car, not with dynamic stability control. Stopping on a hill and taking off again in poor conditions is a traction problem, not a vehicle stability problem. DSC only engages when it detects yaw (sideways movement) while moving. Stopping and resuming on a hill is not a dynamic stability problem unless you're sliding down the hill sideways or something. Mazda's owners manual even talks about the exact situation you're talking about and recommends pushing the button to turn off the TCS if you have this problem.

MAZDA: DSC/TCS | Active Safety Technology

5. Could be. But I think that's speculation at this point. As I said, I had no issues drifting my 2010 Forester that had both TCS and DSC systems. I could happily make that car drift smoothly, do the Scandinavian Flick, etc. whenever I wanted in the snow. Something else to consider is that not all DSC system are created and tuned equally. Subaru's system may be tuned to react less aggressively than the one used on the CX-3 or vice versa. I haven't seen any testimonials yet that can definitively point to the DSC system as the limitation of the CX-3's ability, or lack thereof, to drift. The "freaking out" claim that's been made could just as easily be attributed to the dry clutch system suddenly engaging the rear wheels mid drift. Whether or not that's the DSC system that is causing the clutch to engage is certainly possible, but I think that's just speculation at this point.

If hooning in the snow is your game, and I have no grudges against that, I think the CX-3 is probably not your best option. The lack of horsepower doesn't help it do what you want, and probably the main thing is that the car is just setup to do everything it can to keep its occupants safe, which includes correcting skids, even if they are intentional. I haven't had any trouble getting the rear end to swing out when I want on my CX-3, but I can't say I've personally tried doing donuts (yet >:) ).

6. This goes to the point TiGrayMSM was making about the differences in behavior between his old Speed 6 and the CX-3, despite the two cars having a similar hardware scheme controlling the rear wheels. The CX-3 uses a wider array of sensors to control it and has completely different control logic. The CX-3 is setup for safety, efficiency, then performance while the Speed 6 is seemingly setup for performance first, safety second. The Speed 6 almost never disengages the rear wheels except for a very limited set of circumstances. This contributes to the predictability of the handling of the Speed 6 and it's ability to hold a smooth drift in snow vs. whatever it is the CX-3 is doing. Of course, the Speed 6 is also making over 100 more horsepower which helps break all 4 tires loose while the CX-3 will feel more grippy and less likely to hold a drift when all 4 wheels are driving.

7. Yep. The engine even has Mitsubishi badges on it. His car has a rather rare option on it as it came with the straight-ish 3000 GT rear wing on it instead of the weird boomerang wing than the Stealth normally got. Previous owner said it came that way, but I'm guessing that was probably a dealer-installed option. I don't recall ever seeing another setup that way, but I like it much better than the Dodge wing. I should see if he's got that car put back together yet. The stock turbos bit the dust a while back and he had a head gasket leak he was fixing up along with a few other odds and ends while he had it apart. He's got a new set of aftermarket turbos and intercooler(s?) that should put the power up around 400 HP or so he says. He didn't want to go too big on the horsepower because the transmissions in those cars are rather notorious for being made of a substance that looks like steel but seems to actually be made of glass.
 

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I don't know if it's still the case but Subaru had two different AWD systems in their non-enthusiast cars. Automagic-equipped cars got an electromechanical clutch while people rowing their own gears had a viscous LSD.

Regardless, I would think that any stability control system would need to know what the steering wheel was doing so disconnecting the steering angle sensor would probably get the job done.

I will say that the stability control system in my 2016 CX-3 is waaaaaaaaaaaaay more tolerant of goofing around than the one in my 2005 RX-8. The RX-8 shuts down the fun before it even starts but the CX-3 lets me hang the tail out a little bit.
 

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I don't know if it's still the case but Subaru had two different AWD systems in their non-enthusiast cars. Automagic-equipped cars got an electromechanical clutch while people rowing their own gears had a viscous LSD.

Regardless, I would think that any stability control system would need to know what the steering wheel was doing so disconnecting the steering angle sensor would probably get the job done.
Possibly, but keep in mind the differences in control logic. AFAIK, Subaru's systems are always in AWD mode except for a very limited set of circumstances when it's sensors tell it to turn off. The CX-3 takes the opposite approach where it's always in FWD mode until the sensors tell it to turn on. This is going to cause different behavior when hooning in a parking lot.

We know that the steering angle does control the AWD system. Mazda's demo videos showing the system at work on a set of rollers or over a little speedbump with the wheel cocked to one side are done that way to force the AWD system to engage. It's also logical to assume that signal feeds into the DSC system. Disabling this input on the CX-3 could cause the rear wheels to never engage due to steering angle input because this signal is used for more than just the DSC system.

Anyone monkeying with this stuff should be aware of the full impact of what they're doing. There's still many other inputs that could trigger the rear wheels to engage, such as the windshield wipers being on, unless the system detects an error on the steering angle sensor and just turns the AWD system offline completely until the issue is resolved. That's all hypothetical, of course, and would need testing to verify. Seems like a lot of trouble to go through just to do some donuts in the snow.
 

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Possibly, but keep in mind the differences in control logic. AFAIK, Subaru's systems are always in AWD mode except for a very limited set of circumstances when it's sensors tell it to turn off. The CX-3 takes the opposite approach where it's always in FWD mode until the sensors tell it to turn on. This is going to cause different behavior when hooning in a parking lot.

We know that the steering angle does control the AWD system. Mazda's demo videos showing the system at work on a set of rollers or over a little speedbump with the wheel cocked to one side are done that way to force the AWD system to engage. It's also logical to assume that signal feeds into the DSC system. Disabling this input on the CX-3 could cause the rear wheels to never engage due to steering angle input because this signal is used for more than just the DSC system.

Anyone monkeying with this stuff should be aware of the full impact of what they're doing. There's still many other inputs that could trigger the rear wheels to engage, such as the windshield wipers being on, unless the system detects an error on the steering angle sensor and just turns the AWD system offline completely until the issue is resolved. That's all hypothetical, of course, and would need testing to verify. Seems like a lot of trouble to go through just to do some donuts in the snow.
If you can disable stability control, once the front wheels slip and it moves to AWD, it should still be able to drift. My current DD has a similar or nearly the same system, (Jeep Patriot.) I can lock it in if I want, but it honestly makes zero difference. I've hooned numerous FWD --> AWD on demand vehicles, and never met one that wouldn't play, as long as the car itself didn't intervene via electronic nannies.

As to your steering angle sensor being disabled causing the AWD to not engage, I think that's highly speculative with no real basis. There is no huge impact from unplugging a sensor, driving it really quick and then plugging it back in, (and clearing any codes that remain.) If have no interest in finding a way to do this, why are you here?

Being able to disable the stability control is more than just donuts.

1. The CX-3 AWD system has already been shown to fight people changing lanes on snow covered roads.

2. A good properly trained driver can react better than the computer can.

3. Yes donuts.

4. Ever done a winter auto-cross? They are an absolute blast.

 

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Vipre77, trust me on this one. It is the DSC. It behaves very similarly to the speed6 when the DSC is not disabled. I would believe it was the awd if I didn't physically feel the car cutting back power. The TCS light may even blink when this happens. I will confirm when we get our first significant snowfall. ;)
 

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Vipre77, trust me on this one. It is the DSC. It behaves very similarly to the speed6 when the DSC is not disabled. I would believe it was the awd if I didn't physically feel the car cutting back power. The TCS light may even blink when this happens. I will confirm when we get our first significant snowfall. ;)
You could very well be right, but with the low-horsepower engine in this car, a sudden on-set of traction from AWD kicking in will drag engine RPMs down very quickly. It just doesn't have the power to keep all 4 tires spinning easily. When that happens, it will feel exactly the same as a fuel cut-off from the DSC system. I wouldn't dismiss the drivetrain as a possibility just yet. More testing is definitely in order.
 

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Hi All,


New to the forum. I was searching how to disable it myself and can't upon this forum discussion. I found how to disable temporarily only. Do some donuts in a parking lot etc. But it starts to work as soon as the car starts to track straight above around 15 km/h, before that you can do as many donuts etc as you like. Turn off engine, hold tsc button, foot on brake, start car, continue to hold until engine is running and tsc light remains illuminated. Gave some fun..... But like i said, get on the road and it's active again which sucks.

You would have to fly disable the abs system most likely to stop it from working entirely, unplug a wheel sensor or the abs controller altogether/ pull fuse. Not sure about the speedometer though, this car could use wheel speed sensor for vehicle speed in leui of missing vss in the gearbox.
 

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Vipre77, trust me on this one. It is the DSC. It behaves very similarly to the speed6 when the DSC is not disabled. I would believe it was the awd if I didn't physically feel the car cutting back power. The TCS light may even blink when this happens. I will confirm when we get our first significant snowfall.
You could very well be right, but with the low-horsepower engine in this car, a sudden on-set of traction from AWD kicking in will drag engine RPMs down very quickly. It just doesn't have the power to keep all 4 tires spinning easily. When that happens, it will feel exactly the same as a fuel cut-off from the DSC system. I wouldn't dismiss the drivetrain as a possibility just yet. More testing is definitely in order.
We finally got some decent snow. When you turn off TCS, DSC remains enabled. When it activates the DSC icon blinks (car with squiggly lines). It definitely cuts power and it makes me not trust the car in the snow.
 

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After driving around on icy country roads the past few days, I have to say that DSC truly can be dangerous. The system seems to do ok with allowing some wheel spin in a straight line, but if you try to turn you are SOL. The biggest problem comes up on icy roads (due to snow drift) with steep turns (say 90 degrees). If you are driving at anything above 5mph and the front wheels start losing traction, the beautiful thing about an awd car would be that you can point your steering wheel in the direction you want to go and accelerate. You simply can not do this with the CX-3. It will start cutting power and actually induce understeer by not letting you power out of the turn. I know in the CX-7 you could unplug the fuse to disable DSC, and I may need to come up with a similar solution for this car.
 

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Has anyone considered just pulling the ABS/TC fuse, and see if that defeats stability control? It should, it does on most any car, as it loses connections to needed censors. (It appears someone has verified this on CX-5s.)
 

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Has anyone considered just pulling the ABS/TC fuse, and see if that defeats stability control? It should, it does on most any car, as it loses connections to needed censors. (It appears someone has verified this on CX-5s.)
If that's works, you might be better served by installing a switch to disable the circuit rather than relying on pulling the fuse if this is something you think you might want to do occasionally.

I've gotten a fair amount of snow here in Milwaukee so far this winter and haven't yet encountered a situation where the car stopped me from doing what I wanted it to do, including a 90-degree turn on a slippery downhill grade pulling into the driveway at work. I had one day where I was doing 10-15 on the approach to the driveway, hit the brake to slow down a bit more and the car just plowed straight ahead (I'm on the factory all-season tires) without slowing. Let off the brake and didn't get much turning response. Got on the gas and the front end came around nicely and I made my turn with enough power to pull me through the turn without any major fuss from the powertrain. DSC doesn't cut off all power. It just reduces it to keep torque delivery low enough to the tires that are gripping. The system's goal is maintain traction and maneuverability as much as possible, so it will reduce torque to keep traction rather than allowing you to break the tires loose again. This was exactly the situation where these systems are designed to help.

If you want it off to have some fun, that's one thing. But for everyday driving around in bad weather, you're almost always better off by leaving both traction and stability control on. Turning off traction control can be useful for a few things like getting moving after you're stuck in the snow is okay or a few other fairly specific situations, but other than that, you're better off leaving both on. There's almost never a reason to ever disable stability control other than hotdogging. I don't have a problem with hotdogging on occasion, so it can be nice to be able to defeat the system in those cases, but almost never a good idea to turn it off in any other situation.

https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/motorvehiclesafety/tp-tp14651-vs200701-faq-742.htm#Why
Don't Touch That Button: Turning Off Stability Control Is Dumb and Dangerous
https://practicalmotoring.com.au/voices/the-case-for-turning-stability-control-off/
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/winter-driving-guide-tips-to-survive-the-snow-and-ice-feature
 

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If that's works, you might be better served by installing a switch to disable the circuit rather than relying on pulling the fuse if this is something you think you might want to do occasionally.

I've gotten a fair amount of snow here in Milwaukee so far this winter and haven't yet encountered a situation where the car stopped me from doing what I wanted it to do, including a 90-degree turn on a slippery downhill grade pulling into the driveway at work. I had one day where I was doing 10-15 on the approach to the driveway, hit the brake to slow down a bit more and the car just plowed straight ahead (I'm on the factory all-season tires) without slowing. Let off the brake and didn't get much turning response. Got on the gas and the front end came around nicely and I made my turn with enough power to pull me through the turn without any major fuss from the powertrain. DSC doesn't cut off all power. It just reduces it to keep torque delivery low enough to the tires that are gripping. The system's goal is maintain traction and maneuverability as much as possible, so it will reduce torque to keep traction rather than allowing you to break the tires loose again. This was exactly the situation where these systems are designed to help.

If you want it off to have some fun, that's one thing. But for everyday driving around in bad weather, you're almost always better off by leaving both traction and stability control on. Turning off traction control can be useful for a few things like getting moving after you're stuck in the snow is okay or a few other fairly specific situations, but other than that, you're better off leaving both on. There's almost never a reason to ever disable stability control other than hotdogging. I don't have a problem with hotdogging on occasion, so it can be nice to be able to defeat the system in those cases, but almost never a good idea to turn it off in any other situation.

https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/motorvehiclesafety/tp-tp14651-vs200701-faq-742.htm#Why
Don't Touch That Button: Turning Off Stability Control Is Dumb and Dangerous
https://practicalmotoring.com.au/voices/the-case-for-turning-stability-control-off/
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/winter-driving-guide-tips-to-survive-the-snow-and-ice-feature
Again with the long rambling responses.

Obviously if disconnecting the ABS/TC fuse works, installing a switch would be a better permanent solution. I've discussed how it's been done on other platforms (and it could be an option here) in previous posts... (Post within this thread...)

I'm glad you were able to make a 90 degree turn, we're all very proud of you. Thank you for sharing stability control 101, because everyone didn't already know how it's meant to work...

As to the always leaving TC and and stability control on, yes you may be better off with it. Coming from vehicles like a WRX (much higher horsepower) that had no traction control or stability control, and having zero issues ever, I prefer to be in complete control of the car. I've only had a car under my control end up in a ditch once ever, and it was a friends car, and the stability control preventing me from being able to correct and drive out of the situation. That aside, many have also complained that the car fights you changing lane, or moving across rutted snow, preventing you from putting the car where it needs to be. No thanks. If my 250awhp WRX had zero need for traction or stability control, a car that weighs nearly the same with 150hp at the crank certainly does not.
 

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CraveSingletrack

Your a dick, go to another forum.
Nah, I'm good. ;)

Was I a bit harsh in my last response? Sure. But Vipre77 has posted long rambling responses filled with speculation as to why every idea won't work (with no basis), adding in long off topic tid bits, (I made a left turn last week, didn't need stability control off), questioning whether people even knew whether their stability control was actually still active, and patronizing people for even wanting to find a way to disable stability control.
 

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I mean I get what Vipre77 is trying to say. If you drive slowly and are just getting from point A to point B, the DSC system works fine. However, I can get a FWD car with winter tires and do just that. The bonus with AWD for me has always been that it adds the "fun" factor to winter driving. The problem with the way DSC is implemented in this car is that it makes the behavior of the car unpredictable if you are driving in an "engaging" manner. If you want to have some fun in the snow, DSC will put a stop to that party. Where the safety issue comes into play is when, for example, your car starts to slide and you know you can power out and correct the slide/skid. DSC will not allow this as it will cut torque and it will actually induce understeer. You have to brake, regain traction, and continue on your merry way. I simply prefer having the ability to make that decision on my own.
 

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I mean I get what Vipre77 is trying to say. If you drive slowly and are just getting from point A to point B, the DSC system works fine. However, I can get a FWD car with winter tires and do just that. The bonus with AWD for me has always been that it adds the "fun" factor to winter driving. The problem with the way DSC is implemented in this car is that it makes the behavior of the car unpredictable if you are driving in an "engaging" manner. If you want to have some fun in the snow, DSC will put a stop to that party. Where the safety issue comes into play is when, for example, your car starts to slide and you know you can power out and correct the slide/skid. DSC will not allow this as it will cut torque and it will actually induce understeer. You have to brake, regain traction, and continue on your merry way. I simply prefer having the ability to make that decision on my own.
Exactly.
 

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Again with the long rambling responses.
Yes, you're welcome.

Obviously if disconnecting the ABS/TC fuse works, installing a switch would be a better permanent solution. I've discussed how it's been done on other platforms (and it could be an option here) in previous posts... (Post within this thread...)
And you're still missing my point that experience on other platforms may be completely irrelevant. Why don't you try it and prove that your hypotheses work instead of speculating? You might be right, but also you could be wrong.

I'm glad you were able to make a 90 degree turn, we're all very proud of you. Thank you for sharing stability control 101, because everyone didn't already know how it's meant to work...
Obviously, some here need some education if they think they can predict and react faster than a computer. Not even mentioning being able to apply brakes independently to each wheel as needed. Having fun is one thing. Normal driving is something else entirely. I was describing the exact situation someone else was saying they were afraid the DSC system would cause a problem in. I firmly dispute that claim. This is exactly the scenario DSC is designed to help in. If you think exceeding the traction limits of your tires is helping pull you through a turn in an emergency maneuver, you're simply wrong. How often is a Scandinavian Flick needed in an emergency? I will accept a claim that it is possible the system cuts "too much" power in an effort to maintain traction and stability, but I think that's going to be a pretty hard claim to back up with proof.

As to the always leaving TC and and stability control on, yes you may be better off with it.
May be better off? No. There is plenty of empirical evidence to prove that accident rates have decreased significantly with these systems enabled and it's better to leave them on in all but a very few special use cases. I think you'll be hard-pressed to find any examples of DSC being a cause of an accident. Go ahead and google it for yourself. I did and found nothing. Auto manufacturers provide guidance on how/when to disable traction control, but it is never recommended by any manufacturer I've ever seen to turn off DSC for street use. Seriously... Try Google and see if you can find anywhere from a reputable source that says when it's a good time to ever turn it off except for at the race track? Even at the track, I've provided a source that says it's dumb to turn it off there, too, unless you're a professional race driver.

Coming from vehicles like a WRX (much higher horsepower) that had no traction control or stability control, and having zero issues ever, I prefer to be in complete control of the car. I've only had a car under my control end up in a ditch once ever, and it was a friends car, and the stability control preventing me from being able to correct and drive out of the situation.
And congrats to you, too, on being able to control it in every situation you encountered. I owned a 2002 WRX with a 5-speed myself and had it for four years. It eventually put me into a tree. I was over-confident in the car's (and my own) capability and was probably driving too fast for conditions. I changed lanes after a heavy, wet snowfall. The lane I was in was not recently plowed and had 4-5 inches of slush. The lane was changing to was recently plowed. I was expecting it to pull to one side when I changed lanes, but not to the extent that it did. The sudden change in traction between the two sides of the vehicle put it into an unrecoverable skid. I couldn't react quickly enough to avoid the skid. Brakes were the first instinct, and had no effect. Gas and steering into the skid equally had no effect because I had overcome the limits of available traction. DSC and traction control systems could have helped in this situation, though, certainly not a guarantee by any means. You have your anecdotal evidence and I have mine.

That aside, many have also complained that the car fights you changing lane, or moving across rutted snow, preventing you from putting the car where it needs to be. No thanks. If my 250awhp WRX had zero need for traction or stability control, a car that weighs nearly the same with 150hp at the crank certainly does not.
I've never experienced anything like what you describe with difficulties changing lanes or with rutted snow, up to 5-6 inches deep anyway, even with the crappy factory all-season tires on my 16" wheels. Things could certainly be different if you're rolling on the slightly wider factory 18" wheels. It should also be noted that my CX-3 is the 2016 Touring model and does not have any lane-keeping assists/warnings which can affect what you're describing and I have heard complaints like those on other vehicles with those systems, though I haven't looked for complaints like that on CX-3 specifically. And this is not a discussion of whether or not the car "needs" DSC. No car "needs" it. But you are better off with it. Even in a WRX. If you weren't better off with it, Subaru wouldn't be putting it on their present models. Of course, part of that is due to regulatory reasons. Some countries require it now for new cars, so it ends up in all markets.

If you guys want to continue to delude yourselves that you're better off with DSC turned off in everyday street use, by all means, go for it. Just hope your insurance companies don't find out about it if you ever get in a wreck which is statistically more likely to happen when it's off.
 
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