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Both Kia and Hyundai have been doing a great job both in terms of design and upping their perception of reliability/dependability.

With that said, I just can't bring myself to consider owning either brand.

I know I'm not alone here but both brands may never shake their old image unfortunately. If I'm going to spend Honda/Toyota/Mazda money then I might as well go with a Honda/Toyota/Mazda...at least I know for absolute certainty that I won't have that nagging feeling of "Did I make the right choice?" in the back of my mind.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Well, it is unfortunate if people aren't willing to look at a car company as they are now, rather than looking at them as they were 25 years ago. Toyota/Honda/Mazda didn't start out with the image they have now either. No car company did. Most people in the car industry have started noticing Kia/Hyundai for a few years now and have changed their minds about them.

I owned a 2012 Kia Optima Hybrid before I got my CX-3. It was a great car other than being, you know, a slow hybrid. But almost everything else about it was excellent, from the craftsmanship to the features (some not even available in any Mazda). And I never had any reliability issues with it.

The Stinger, and Hyundai's newly formed Genesis brand, really show the company's growth and intent. And it doesn't hurt that those cars are designed and built by Hundai/Kia's European division full of former Audi and BMW designers and executives.

And I'll say, if this Stinger is somewhat affordable and within my price range, I would choose it over any Honda/Toyota/Mazda.
 

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The Stinger, and Hyundai's newly formed Genesis brand, really show the company's growth and intent. And it doesn't hurt that those cars are designed and built by Hundai/Kia's European division full of former Audi and BMW designers and executives.

And I'll say, if this Stinger is somewhat affordable and within my price range, I would choose it over any Honda/Toyota/Mazda.
Built by former Audi and BMW people? I doubt it, so be it because it is people who have previously been fired from one of the big German factories;-)

Here in Europe, the small Kia (use and throw away cars) can sell, but when they become larger and more expensive, it will not have a chance to compete with neither Audi, BMW or Mercedes, people would still regard it as a "wannabe "how good it is ....
Lovely car ..... but it is still only a Kia / Hyundai ...
 

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Well, it is unfortunate if people aren't willing to look at a car company as they are now, rather than looking at them as they were 25 years ago. Toyota/Honda/Mazda didn't start out with the image they have now either. No car company did. Most people in the car industry have started noticing Kia/Hyundai for a few years now and have changed their minds about them.
No doubt the quality/reliability of both Kia/Hyundai have increased over the years; but another thing that really bothers me about both brands is that they are notorious for "borrowing" major design cues from other manufacturers. They haven't really found their own style. All their cars are essentially just a hodgepodge of styles from other manufacturers, Honda, BMW, VW, Mercedes, Toyota, Infinity and even Aston Martin.

Kia even uses a modified Lexus logo on some of their cars in the Korean market. Hyundai of course still uses their stylized Honda logo.

Wouldn't totally bother me so much if they were still priced well below the competition but these days they are almost priced the same as the cars they are copying...you might get a few more perks but you're still buying a Kia/Hyundai.

If I'm going to buy a car that looks like a Toyota and priced $1000 less I would much rather spend the extra $1000 and go with the Toyota and not have to deal with any relative unknowns since I tend to keep my cars for 10+ years.
 

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Built by former Audi and BMW people? I doubt it, so be it because it is people who have previously been fired from one of the big German factories;-)
They are actually, KIA and Hyundai were able to poach allot of top designers and engineers during the GFC because the big groups were 'restructuring'.

Nothing is more wannabe with an M-pack on a car with the same horsepower as a little Korean car .... or a diesel ;)
 

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They are actually, KIA and Hyundai were able to poach allot of top designers and engineers during the GFC because the big groups were 'restructuring'.
It is true that some of the new models from China, Korea etc are designed in Europe (sorry Trump), but it's probably not "top designers" major European car companies discards when they "restructuring" their business....
(as I previously wrote, I think it's probably good cars, but... its still just a Kia..............) :D
 

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Discussion Starter #10
The vice president of BMW's M-division is not a top guy I guess ;)
 

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It is true that some of the new models from China, Korea etc are designed in Europe (sorry Trump), but it's probably not "top designers" major European car companies discards when they "restructuring" their business....
(as I previously wrote, I think it's probably good cars, but... its still just a Kia..............) :D
Those top designers were probably too busy designing all those emission compliant engines in Europe to look for new better paying jobs ;)

I get what you mean, but just remember VW made something as horrible as the Beetle, and BMW sells a 116iM, so you can't always judge a brand by its past performance. IMHO Kia and Hyandai have managed to match or better most of the more 'vanilla' Japanese brands recently.
 

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They have been making vast improvements over the years. In the past, I would never consider H/K, but my wife had a '13 Sorento and, for the price, was a fine machine. Hyundai has tried (lamely) to get into the "sporty compact" segment with the Veloster, but their Genesis brand is spot on. Since Kia is under the same umbrella, their premium cars should be on par. The Optima has been a fine looking car the past few years - I just wish they offered more BHP under the hood.
 

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The vice president of BMW's M-division is not a top guy I guess ;)
A vice president of BMW is not also employed by the KIA! .. if he is a former employee of BMW and now works for Kia, he is a loser who has taken the job either because he has been fired or because of a money offers, I think not many with quality sense would leave BMW in exchange for KIA voluntarily.

But no matter what he is, he is not a "top designer", he is the president and they are not always worth their weight in gold ....

(as I previously wrote about Kia, I think it's probably good cars, but... its still just a Kia..............)>:)
 

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A vice president of BMW is not also employed by the KIA! .. if he is a former employee of BMW and now works for Kia, he is a loser who has taken the job either because he has been fired or because of a money offers, I think not many with quality sense would leave BMW in exchange for KIA voluntarily.

But no matter what he is, he is not a "top designer", he is the president and they are not always worth their weight in gold ....

(as I previously wrote about Kia, I think it's probably good cars, but... its still just a Kia..............)>:)
Have you only ever had one job?

More than likely a person was motivated more by the opportunity to reinvent a brand rather than continue to do the same thing.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20121228/OEM02/312289854/kia-appoints-ex-audi-designer-schreyer-first-non-korean-president

http://www.autonews.com/article/20150617/COPY01/306179981/hyundai-to-hire-ex-bentley-designer-donckerwolke-to-succeed-schreyer

Ex-BMW Designer Thomas Burkle, Hired by Hyundai! Korean Giant?s Reputation has Improved and Continues to Grow! - Muscle Cars Zone!

Genesis names ex-Bugatti designer Alexander Selipanov to role of Chief Designer - Hyundai Australia

How Hyundai, Kia beat out Toyota, Honda | Fortune.com

Then the flip side;

Borgward Hires Kia Designer In A Reversal Of Trends
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Exactly, judging a brand, especially one that has grown and improved as fast as Kia/Hyundai, based on the past is ridiculous. I'm sure the likes of Mazda and Honda and Toyota had growing pains and were probably mocked at first. Do people still mock them? Of course not. So why mock this company by saying "it's just a Kia"?
 

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Have you only ever had one job?
Yes, I have succeeded to be good at my job and have worked the same place in all my working years, it has allowed me to be able to support my family always.
But I have acquaintances who are not so good at their job, so they must constantly seek new paths before their shortcomings will be revealed to the world or they are kicked out, so they've had more than one job!

More than likely a person was motivated more by the opportunity to reinvent a brand rather than continue to do the same thing.
All your links below, simply shows Kia / Hyundai are betting big and and do everything they can to buy a handful of people primarily from the European car industry, so they can "namdroppe" and get potential buyers to be impressed
It's like when stone-rich states need a sports team, they buy people dearly, agreements with them to change citizenship ... and wupti! ... Qatar and others have a national team with famous names on ;-)

http://www.autonews.com/article/20121228/OEM02/312289854/kia-appoints-ex-audi-designer-schreyer-first-non-korean-president

http://www.autonews.com/article/20150617/COPY01/306179981/hyundai-to-hire-ex-bentley-designer-donckerwolke-to-succeed-schreyer

Ex-BMW Designer Thomas Burkle, Hired by Hyundai! Korean Giant?s Reputation has Improved and Continues to Grow! - Muscle Cars Zone!

Genesis names ex-Bugatti designer Alexander Selipanov to role of Chief Designer - Hyundai Australia

How Hyundai, Kia beat out Toyota, Honda | Fortune.com

Then the flip side;

Borgward Hires Kia Designer In A Reversal Of Trends[/QUOTE]
 

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Exactly, judging a brand, especially one that has grown and improved as fast as Kia/Hyundai, based on the past is ridiculous. I'm sure the likes of Mazda and Honda and Toyota had growing pains and were probably mocked at first. Do people still mock them? Of course not. So why mock this company by saying "it's just a Kia"?
Now, Kia has produced cars the last 50-60 years, so complete beginners are they not.
But you're right, it is not clever to mock Kia / Hyundai cars, it obviously hurts some of their fans ... then I will drop the phrase "But .. its still just a Kia"
I have now corrected it to "My wife once had a Hyundai Pony", it says it all!
:rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Ford once made a Ford Pinto......

You're really just being negative for the sake of being negative. Or maybe Hyundai/Kia hurt your feelings in some way a long time ago lol.
 

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Yes, I have succeeded to be good at my job and have worked the same place in all my working years, it has allowed me to be able to support my family always.
But I have acquaintances who are not so good at their job, so they must constantly seek new paths before their shortcomings will be revealed to the world or they are kicked out, so they've had more than one job!


All your links below, simply shows Kia / Hyundai are betting big and and do everything they can to buy a handful of people primarily from the European car industry, so they can "namdroppe" and get potential buyers to be impressed
It's like when stone-rich states need a sports team, they buy people dearly, agreements with them to change citizenship ... and wupti! ... Qatar and others have a national team with famous names on ;-)

http://www.autonews.com/article/20121228/OEM02/312289854/kia-appoints-ex-audi-designer-schreyer-first-non-korean-president

http://www.autonews.com/article/20150617/COPY01/306179981/hyundai-to-hire-ex-bentley-designer-donckerwolke-to-succeed-schreyer

Ex-BMW Designer Thomas Burkle, Hired by Hyundai! Korean Giant?s Reputation has Improved and Continues to Grow! - Muscle Cars Zone!

Genesis names ex-Bugatti designer Alexander Selipanov to role of Chief Designer - Hyundai Australia

How Hyundai, Kia beat out Toyota, Honda | Fortune.com

Then the flip side;

Borgward Hires Kia Designer In A Reversal Of Trends
[/QUOTE]

Kind of over it tbh ... but wow you have such an narrow minded view and I think you are actually incapable of saying you're wrong in any way.
 

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Kind of over it tbh ... but wow you have such an narrow minded view and I think you are actually incapable of saying you're wrong in any way.
Now the debate has moved from discussing cars to you trying to insult me personally, so I will leave it there :(
 
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