Do I have a valid gripe? - Mazda CX3 Forum
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post #1 of 11 Old 05-27-2016, 09:20 PM Thread Starter
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Do I have a valid gripe?

I just bought a CX3 Touring.
The dealer made me an offer and I accepted if he would throw in 2 extra keys. He said the electronic keys were way too expensive, but could give me two valet keys. That was all I wanted, so I accepted the offer. (I had two extra keys made for my wife's CX9 for like $80; they are very handy to have)

My wife picked the car up today (I still haven't seen it...). The two valet keys open the door, but do nothing else.
A valet key opens the door and starts the car, but does not open the glove compartment. On the Mazda website it says that valet keys are not available for the CX3. What he gave me are not valet keys.

Okay I partly messed up; I test drove a Grand Touring and didn't realize that the Touring was also keyless starting.
But the dealer messed up much bigger; he sold me valet keys that don't exist.

I don't want to be a jerk about this, but it seems to me that I am entitled to something. Opinions?
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post #2 of 11 Old 05-27-2016, 10:13 PM
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I've heard on some cars you have to hold the key up by the start button for it to work. Not sure if CX-3 works that way or not. Worth a try maybe? CX-3 doesn't have a locking glovebox, or at least not here in the US models anyway.

If the keys, in fact, don't do what you expected and you've paid for them, I'd either return them for a refund (not sure if those are sold as-is and not eligible for refunds), or maybe at least get some kind of credits towards other parts and services.

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Hers: 2016 CX-5 Sport, FWD, Reflex Blue
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post #3 of 11 Old 05-28-2016, 08:06 PM
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Sorry to hear about your disappointment so soon after delivery. The way you've described the issue makes it sound, to me, like an innocent misunderstanding between you and the dealer. It really doesn't seem to be an underhanded motive of the dealer to dupe you, especially since it seems that you're a repeat customer because you already have a CX-9. Like Vipre77 said, the CX-3 doesn't even have a locking glove box. I guess it comes down to asking yourself if you would have purchased the CX-3 even without the ability to have a valet key.
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post #4 of 11 Old 05-29-2016, 02:56 PM Thread Starter
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Sorry to hear about your disappointment so soon after delivery. The way you've described the issue makes it sound, to me, like an innocent misunderstanding between you and the dealer. It really doesn't seem to be an underhanded motive of the dealer to dupe you, especially since it seems that you're a repeat customer because you already have a CX-9. Like Vipre77 said, the CX-3 doesn't even have a locking glove box. I guess it comes down to asking yourself if you would have purchased the CX-3 even without the ability to have a valet key.
I never accused him of cheating me. He probably assumed I knew that keys were worthless and used the word "valet" carelessly.
I would have bought the car anyhow, but would have wanted an extra $100 off; the value of the keys.

Funny thing is they threw in wheel locks without telling me or charging for them. I will take them off, as I have never heard of a wheel being stolen around here.
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post #5 of 11 Old 05-29-2016, 08:28 PM Thread Starter
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Does this make any sense as a solution?

I can offer to buy a used "key" on ebay. They program it for free, and I give them the wheel locks the car came with that I don't want.

I get a 3rd programmed key for $60.
They get a set of wheel locks and a satisfied customer.
Everyone's happy.

Reasonable?

Is is fair to assume that any key that says FCC ID: WAZSKE13D01 will work with the CX3? Even the 4 button ones?
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post #6 of 11 Old 05-30-2016, 12:24 PM
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Never heard of ballet keys....yes there's no locking glove box in cx3����������
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post #7 of 11 Old 05-31-2016, 01:13 PM
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How many key fobs did they give you? Every new car should come with two as far as I'm concerned. Every new car I've purchase has come with two.

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post #8 of 11 Old 05-31-2016, 06:24 PM
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There should have been two standard keys included with the car (this is normal and as far as I know how all new cars are made, with two keys). The dealer has a valid point in that the keyless start keys are stupid expensive (I think from Mazda they are around $300 each not programed or cut. My Mom's Kia needed a new keyless start key that the dealer priced at around $500 after programming and cutting), so I can see them not wanting to give you close to $1000 in keys. That said because it is a keyless start I am not sure how you imagined the valet keys would start the car? There is no keyhole and the manual instructs you to hold the fob to the start button if the battery in the fob dies. So a normal key would have no way to interact with the ignition system, only the door locks. IMHO that makes this your oversight for not understanding that two "regular" keys would not start the car.

I would also be weary of third party used keys. Generally they will need access to the vehicle to program it to work. And while there are not a ton of parts that I would insist on OEM, keyless keyfobs of this type would be one just from a security perspective as well as warranty and such. However that is just my two cents.
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post #9 of 11 Old 05-31-2016, 09:17 PM Thread Starter
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That said because it is a keyless start I am not sure how you imagined the valet keys would start the car? There is no keyhole and the manual instructs you to hold the fob to the start button if the battery in the fob dies.
The key I got has a chip in it. If the fob with a dead battery works by holding it up to the start button, it is a reasonable assumption that a chipped key can do that also. And if it doesn't, the dealer shouldn't have sold it to me.

As far as I know, it actually does and the dealer didn't bother to program it in.
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post #10 of 11 Old 05-31-2016, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Toller View Post
The key I got has a chip in it. If the fob with a dead battery works by holding it up to the start button, it is a reasonable assumption that a chipped key can do that also. And if it doesn't, the dealer shouldn't have sold it to me.

As far as I know, it actually does and the dealer didn't bother to program it in.
The smart key system is more than just a chip though. There is a reason the fob is as large as it is. The key responds to low frequency (LF) transmitting antennas (about 125kHz) in the car by replying with an encrypted rolling ID code in the RF range (>300MHz) that the ECU then decrypts and verifies before allowing the engine to be started. There is an LF antenna behind the start button which is why you can push it with a dead fob and the car will still start.

The chip in a normal transponder key (the kind that you have I am guessing) is more akin to a simple RFID tag that supplies the same code every time. In this system the key is put in the ignition, the car will send an signal to the key which energizes the circuit, the car can then read the code on the transponder in the key, and if verified allows the car to start. So in this system the car would be programmed to the key. In the smart key systems the key and car are programmed to each other as there is more communication going on back and forth.

Simply put they are somewhat similar systems, but the smart key is more active in that there is a back and forth communication whereas a transponder key is passive.

I agree that the dealer should have explained this better, but in the end it is your responsibility as the consumer to do the research before you buy. Since there are no valet keys for this vehicle from Mazda, it would be a safe assumption that the key provided by the dealer only works where there is a standard tumbler lock. And since the car does not have a tumbler lock ignition it would not work there. Even just asking for more clarification from the dealer ("so these valet keys will open the doors and start the car, right?" "well no, they will only open the doors") should have provided you the answer you were seeking.

As an FYI, most cars that have a smart key and locking glove boxes do valet keys slightly differently. You would use the built in "backup" key to lock the glovebox/console/under seat storage, then give the fob without that key to the valet and he can get in and start the car, but has no access to your super secure plastic boxes. That may be what the dealer was referring to when they mentioned a valet key for this car. Bust since we do not have locking storage, that is somewhat of a moot point.

I'm not trying to shoot you down here, I am only looking to educate and provide a balanced perspective of the realities of the situation as it has been presented. You asked if you have a valid gripe, and I don't really see that you do. In the end, if you need a third key, you may just have to spend the additional $400-500 to get another fob. If all you need is a second key, I would ask the dealer where it is, though if it wasn't included on your "we owe, you owe" form you may be up a creek.
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