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disable the stability control DSC

46K views 76 replies 20 participants last post by  akonsgreenery 
#1 · (Edited)
Hey Guys,


Anyone know how to turn off the stability control? You can disable the traction control but the stability control seems to always be active.:mad:

I experienced this also with my cx-5. Looking for a work around before the snow starts to fly. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
 
#2 ·
Press and hold the button until the light goes off to switch off both the TCS and the VSC. Once you’ve disabled both, you can’t put them back on until you turn the ignition off and back on so please be careful.
 
#4 ·
Confirmed it this weekend. I cannot turn off the stability control��
Even after holding the tsc button until it goes out the stability still kicks in. It took the whole fun out of driving in the snow storm this weekend.

I need a fix!!! It's to the point where I'm even thinking about selling the cx-3

The second biggest let down after discovering the sport model doesn't even have a warning light for low washer fluid. Who would of thought a 2016 model would not have this feature.

Mazda is letting me down:(
 
#6 ·
Confirmed it this weekend. I cannot turn off the stability control��
Even after holding the tsc button until it goes out the stability still kicks in.
I need a fix!!! It's to the point where I'm even thinking about selling the cx-3
On some Subaru models all you need to do is to disconnect the steering wheel angle sensor wire. ABS still works. But you may need diagnostic tools to reset the fault codes afterwards.
 
#5 ·
The low washer fluid warning does exist and the warning light is tucked away on the dash so why it isn't wired heaven knows. There will be a way to fiddle the VSC if we can just find it.
 
#8 ·
What's the benefit of turning stability control off? I know if you're having trouble starting from stop on snow, you should turn traction control off. Once you're actually moving on the road you should turn traction control back on. But why stability control to?
 
#10 ·
Exactly this. Coming from some fun cars like the awd speed6, it is a huge let down that you can not turn off stability control. It makes a big difference in the snow as having the stability control off makes the car much more predictable. The low rolling resistance tires are also, in my opinion, terrible in the snow.
 
#11 ·
;) Good to know there are still some real drivers out there. I wonder if any of the engine software tuners out there have the ability to remove the stability by flashing the ECU? I will have to inquire as I am willing to pay for this service if anyone can provide it.
 
#13 ·
I'm surprised that holding the button in for a while didn't work. On my RX-8, if you hold the button in for 7+ seconds the system assumes there is a fault and disables everything except ABS.

I might have to try this in my car.
 
#18 ·
It has been figured out. There is no way to disable the system on USA models. I have driven this car through two winters already. Pressing that button lowers the nanny-intervention but it DEFINITELY does not go away fully. Try doing an awd donut in the snow.... the car goes crazy trying to stop you, even with the system supposedly turned off (and yes, I held the button for an extended period of time. It worked on my speed6 but not on this car).
 
#20 · (Edited)
Some thoughts on this:

1. How do you know if the DSC is disabled or not? Are you sure you're not feeling the rear drive clutch engaging and disengaging as you're tossing the car around? If you turn off the TSC system via the dash button and you toss it around in the snow, does the TSC indicator on the instrument cluster still start flashing at you like it should when TSC is explicitly on?

2. Some models have an indicator light specifically showing "DSC OFF" on the instrument cluster. CX-3 does not. It only indicates if TCS is off and they use the same indicator for activation of both TCS and DSC. On CX-3, when the DSC or TCS engages, the TCS light will flash. Does it still behave that way when TSC is turned off? If the indicator on the gage cluster is not flashing then it's not the DSC causing the car to fight against you putting the car into a slide.

3. Comparing to a Subaru for possible signal wires to cut or disable may be pointless. They are two completely different manufacturers using an almost completely different sensor array for controlling behavior of the drivetrain. While both manufacturers may be using steering angle inputs for both TCS/DSC, that is only one of the possible inputs to control those systems. Both manufacturers use multiple sensors to determine when to engage their DSC system. Mazda goes a step further on CX-3, though. Mazda also uses steering angle as one of the inputs, among many others, to control the clutch that engages the rear wheels. To the best of my possibly out-dated knowledge, Subaru varies torque split, but they don't completely disengage any of their driving wheels. Also, be aware that if you put in some sort of hardware defeat or cut wiring to disable the DSC system, be careful that you don't wreck your car. If your insurance company found out, they would likely not cover any damage claims if having the system on could have prevented the claim in the first place.

4. Unless something has changed in their drivetrains in the last several years, Subaru's full-time AWD systems never fully disengages the front or rear wheels with the exception being the STI which can send 100% power to the rear wheels and effectively disengage the fronts via their DCCD controller. Subaru's approach on this may have changed in recent years to try and eek some more efficiency out of their cars, I'm not sure. I haven't researched it recently.

5. Subaru's full-time AWD system is naturally going to be more consistent and predictable than a system that can dynamically and automatically engage/disengage one set of wheels on the fly. This was something that jumped out at me the first winter I had the CX-3 after previously owning 3 different Subarus (2002 WRX, 2005 Legacy sedan, and 2010 Forester). In good conditions, the transition from FWD to AWD is very seamless most of the time in the CX-3, but it can be very pronounced in poor road conditions like you guys are talking about. It's something I've definitely noticed even in the rain. Sometimes the TSC light will flash when it happens, but it's been pretty rare in my observations.

6. By way of comparison with the Speed 6, Mazda says it can vary power to the rear wheels from 0-50%, but the times that it's allowed to drop that rear distribution to 0% are very limited to situations where you'd be very hard-pressed to notice. Finally some proof of FULL TIME AWD - Mazda 6 Forums : Mazda 6 Forum / Mazda Atenza Forum

7. This is off-topic, but it's a fun story. Well, I think so anyway! :) I have a friend with 1991 Dodge Stealth R/T. That car features a rather exotic all-wheel steering system in addition to being AWD. The fancy steering system only engages at a certain vehicle speed or higher. My friend has never let me drive his car, but he tells me that it gives a very weird feeling if you're corning right at the transition speed where the system might engage and you suddenly find yourself having to adjust your steering to prevent a sudden on-set of over-steer and then you might instinctively want to let off the throttle a bit when that happens. Then you slow down below the activation threshold for the steering system and then the system turns off and now you're under-steering and you have to correct again. The control logic and activation/deactivation weren't particularly seamless with the tech from that time. If you're not expecting it, it can be a little disconcerting.
 
#21 ·
1. I can't test as I haven't bought yet. (I won't buy a vehicle I can't disable stability control on.) I'm hear doing research on the CX-3. If this is figured out my plan is to buy one, lower it, get a header fabbed, and possibly do cams from Orange Virus.

2. Same as 1, I can't answer this one as of yet.

3. I believe you missed the point of my Subaru posts. It was not to try to duplicate they things they've done, it was that they have threads and people actually trying various ways to disable. That aside trying some of the same things they've tried would be a good starting point.

4. This really has no point here, as we aren't comparing AWD systems, we're talking disabling stability control. My current daily driver is FWD until wheelspin is detected (I can lock in 4wd) and it drifts quite well, even when I don't have it locked. Disabling stability control also allows it to get through way more things off road than when it's on. There are hills I can't get up with it on, that I can literally stop on, then continue with stability control off.

5. Yes being able to disable DSC could make it nice in certain situations. I too have previously owned a Subaru (WRX). It didn't even have TC or stability control, and it didn't need it, even with much more power. For me being able to turn off the nannies is a requirement as I'm a 30+ year old kid, and I'm going to play in the snow with whatever my daily is.

6. ok.

7. It's a 3000GT VR4.
 
#23 ·
1. This question was directed at those already commenting that the DSC cannot be turned off on USDM (maybe all North American?) models. While it wouldn't necessarily surprise me if true, given all the other weird regional differences on these, do we really know for certain that this is true or is it just a feeling we have? The evidence presented so far has been one person confirming it by saying his car "freaks out" when trying to do donuts. Do we know that "freaking out" means it's the DSC/TSC system doing stuff or that it's just the nature of the particular AWD setup this car employs? It's likely to be some combination of the two, but I'd be willing to lay a heavier share of the blame on the relatively weak engine and AWD system rather than the DSC. I haven't looked into it, but it's possible that DSC systems, if equipped, are not allowed to be turned off by law here in the US in the name of safety.

2. Same as #1 .

3. My point there is that you may be barking up the wrong tree looking at what the Subaru guys are doing. Two different systems with different sensor arrays and different control logic. At best, it might give some ideas of the type of signals you can look at, but the array of signals employed here may be very different. You'd probably be better off doing some research on Mazda's TCS/DSC system to find out precisely what signals they are using to control their system. What Subaru or anyone else is doing may be entirely irrelevant.

4. Ah, but I think you're missing the point with my discussion on the differences in our drivetrain... I bring it up because I suspect the lacking engine horsepower and the way our AWD system works in the CX-3 are possibly more to blame for its weak ability to do donuts and "super dorif-tooooo" than the DSC system. i.e.: I don't think the DSC system is necessarily the problem you guys are trying to "correct."

So far, no one has been able to confirm for us if the TCS/DSC indicator is flashing when trying to do these donuts to indicate if it is, in fact, actively trying to straighten out the car even with the TCS button off. All we've heard so far is "the car freaks out." What does that mean, exactly? How do we know for sure that the DSC is not disabled? There's no indicator light that I've found for any CX-3 trim sold in any region to confirm DSC is off, yet others outside the US say they've disabled it. How do they know it's off there but not here? Proof seems lacking. Other cars like Subarus and the Speed 6 have very different setups and may explain, at least in part, why they don't see the same behaviors while drifting with those even on other cars with TCS/DSC systems. My Forester had both systems and I had no trouble drifting that sled around and I didn't have to disable anything to make it do so. The full-time AWD was much more predictable and smooth than our part-time setup when trying to do stuff like this.

What you're describing with your daily driver is a problem with the traction control system in your car, not with dynamic stability control. Stopping on a hill and taking off again in poor conditions is a traction problem, not a vehicle stability problem. DSC only engages when it detects yaw (sideways movement) while moving. Stopping and resuming on a hill is not a dynamic stability problem unless you're sliding down the hill sideways or something. Mazda's owners manual even talks about the exact situation you're talking about and recommends pushing the button to turn off the TCS if you have this problem.

MAZDA: DSC/TCS | Active Safety Technology

5. Could be. But I think that's speculation at this point. As I said, I had no issues drifting my 2010 Forester that had both TCS and DSC systems. I could happily make that car drift smoothly, do the Scandinavian Flick, etc. whenever I wanted in the snow. Something else to consider is that not all DSC system are created and tuned equally. Subaru's system may be tuned to react less aggressively than the one used on the CX-3 or vice versa. I haven't seen any testimonials yet that can definitively point to the DSC system as the limitation of the CX-3's ability, or lack thereof, to drift. The "freaking out" claim that's been made could just as easily be attributed to the dry clutch system suddenly engaging the rear wheels mid drift. Whether or not that's the DSC system that is causing the clutch to engage is certainly possible, but I think that's just speculation at this point.

If hooning in the snow is your game, and I have no grudges against that, I think the CX-3 is probably not your best option. The lack of horsepower doesn't help it do what you want, and probably the main thing is that the car is just setup to do everything it can to keep its occupants safe, which includes correcting skids, even if they are intentional. I haven't had any trouble getting the rear end to swing out when I want on my CX-3, but I can't say I've personally tried doing donuts (yet >:) ).

6. This goes to the point TiGrayMSM was making about the differences in behavior between his old Speed 6 and the CX-3, despite the two cars having a similar hardware scheme controlling the rear wheels. The CX-3 uses a wider array of sensors to control it and has completely different control logic. The CX-3 is setup for safety, efficiency, then performance while the Speed 6 is seemingly setup for performance first, safety second. The Speed 6 almost never disengages the rear wheels except for a very limited set of circumstances. This contributes to the predictability of the handling of the Speed 6 and it's ability to hold a smooth drift in snow vs. whatever it is the CX-3 is doing. Of course, the Speed 6 is also making over 100 more horsepower which helps break all 4 tires loose while the CX-3 will feel more grippy and less likely to hold a drift when all 4 wheels are driving.

7. Yep. The engine even has Mitsubishi badges on it. His car has a rather rare option on it as it came with the straight-ish 3000 GT rear wing on it instead of the weird boomerang wing than the Stealth normally got. Previous owner said it came that way, but I'm guessing that was probably a dealer-installed option. I don't recall ever seeing another setup that way, but I like it much better than the Dodge wing. I should see if he's got that car put back together yet. The stock turbos bit the dust a while back and he had a head gasket leak he was fixing up along with a few other odds and ends while he had it apart. He's got a new set of aftermarket turbos and intercooler(s?) that should put the power up around 400 HP or so he says. He didn't want to go too big on the horsepower because the transmissions in those cars are rather notorious for being made of a substance that looks like steel but seems to actually be made of glass.
 
#22 ·
You can disable TCS but not DSC. The car cuts power in DSC (it is very obvious) and it does that even when you turn off TCS. I think in the Euro spec Cx-3 you can turn off both systems.
 
#25 ·
I don't know if it's still the case but Subaru had two different AWD systems in their non-enthusiast cars. Automagic-equipped cars got an electromechanical clutch while people rowing their own gears had a viscous LSD.

Regardless, I would think that any stability control system would need to know what the steering wheel was doing so disconnecting the steering angle sensor would probably get the job done.

I will say that the stability control system in my 2016 CX-3 is waaaaaaaaaaaaay more tolerant of goofing around than the one in my 2005 RX-8. The RX-8 shuts down the fun before it even starts but the CX-3 lets me hang the tail out a little bit.
 
#26 ·
I don't know if it's still the case but Subaru had two different AWD systems in their non-enthusiast cars. Automagic-equipped cars got an electromechanical clutch while people rowing their own gears had a viscous LSD.

Regardless, I would think that any stability control system would need to know what the steering wheel was doing so disconnecting the steering angle sensor would probably get the job done.
Possibly, but keep in mind the differences in control logic. AFAIK, Subaru's systems are always in AWD mode except for a very limited set of circumstances when it's sensors tell it to turn off. The CX-3 takes the opposite approach where it's always in FWD mode until the sensors tell it to turn on. This is going to cause different behavior when hooning in a parking lot.

We know that the steering angle does control the AWD system. Mazda's demo videos showing the system at work on a set of rollers or over a little speedbump with the wheel cocked to one side are done that way to force the AWD system to engage. It's also logical to assume that signal feeds into the DSC system. Disabling this input on the CX-3 could cause the rear wheels to never engage due to steering angle input because this signal is used for more than just the DSC system.

Anyone monkeying with this stuff should be aware of the full impact of what they're doing. There's still many other inputs that could trigger the rear wheels to engage, such as the windshield wipers being on, unless the system detects an error on the steering angle sensor and just turns the AWD system offline completely until the issue is resolved. That's all hypothetical, of course, and would need testing to verify. Seems like a lot of trouble to go through just to do some donuts in the snow.
 
#28 ·
Vipre77, trust me on this one. It is the DSC. It behaves very similarly to the speed6 when the DSC is not disabled. I would believe it was the awd if I didn't physically feel the car cutting back power. The TCS light may even blink when this happens. I will confirm when we get our first significant snowfall. ;)
 
#29 ·
You could very well be right, but with the low-horsepower engine in this car, a sudden on-set of traction from AWD kicking in will drag engine RPMs down very quickly. It just doesn't have the power to keep all 4 tires spinning easily. When that happens, it will feel exactly the same as a fuel cut-off from the DSC system. I wouldn't dismiss the drivetrain as a possibility just yet. More testing is definitely in order.
 
#30 ·
Hi All,


New to the forum. I was searching how to disable it myself and can't upon this forum discussion. I found how to disable temporarily only. Do some donuts in a parking lot etc. But it starts to work as soon as the car starts to track straight above around 15 km/h, before that you can do as many donuts etc as you like. Turn off engine, hold tsc button, foot on brake, start car, continue to hold until engine is running and tsc light remains illuminated. Gave some fun..... But like i said, get on the road and it's active again which sucks.

You would have to fly disable the abs system most likely to stop it from working entirely, unplug a wheel sensor or the abs controller altogether/ pull fuse. Not sure about the speedometer though, this car could use wheel speed sensor for vehicle speed in leui of missing vss in the gearbox.
 
#32 ·
After driving around on icy country roads the past few days, I have to say that DSC truly can be dangerous. The system seems to do ok with allowing some wheel spin in a straight line, but if you try to turn you are SOL. The biggest problem comes up on icy roads (due to snow drift) with steep turns (say 90 degrees). If you are driving at anything above 5mph and the front wheels start losing traction, the beautiful thing about an awd car would be that you can point your steering wheel in the direction you want to go and accelerate. You simply can not do this with the CX-3. It will start cutting power and actually induce understeer by not letting you power out of the turn. I know in the CX-7 you could unplug the fuse to disable DSC, and I may need to come up with a similar solution for this car.
 
#34 ·
If that's works, you might be better served by installing a switch to disable the circuit rather than relying on pulling the fuse if this is something you think you might want to do occasionally.

I've gotten a fair amount of snow here in Milwaukee so far this winter and haven't yet encountered a situation where the car stopped me from doing what I wanted it to do, including a 90-degree turn on a slippery downhill grade pulling into the driveway at work. I had one day where I was doing 10-15 on the approach to the driveway, hit the brake to slow down a bit more and the car just plowed straight ahead (I'm on the factory all-season tires) without slowing. Let off the brake and didn't get much turning response. Got on the gas and the front end came around nicely and I made my turn with enough power to pull me through the turn without any major fuss from the powertrain. DSC doesn't cut off all power. It just reduces it to keep torque delivery low enough to the tires that are gripping. The system's goal is maintain traction and maneuverability as much as possible, so it will reduce torque to keep traction rather than allowing you to break the tires loose again. This was exactly the situation where these systems are designed to help.

If you want it off to have some fun, that's one thing. But for everyday driving around in bad weather, you're almost always better off by leaving both traction and stability control on. Turning off traction control can be useful for a few things like getting moving after you're stuck in the snow is okay or a few other fairly specific situations, but other than that, you're better off leaving both on. There's almost never a reason to ever disable stability control other than hotdogging. I don't have a problem with hotdogging on occasion, so it can be nice to be able to defeat the system in those cases, but almost never a good idea to turn it off in any other situation.

https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/motorvehiclesafety/tp-tp14651-vs200701-faq-742.htm#Why
Don't Touch That Button: Turning Off Stability Control Is Dumb and Dangerous
https://practicalmotoring.com.au/voices/the-case-for-turning-stability-control-off/
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/winter-driving-guide-tips-to-survive-the-snow-and-ice-feature
 
#37 ·
Nah, I'm good. ;)

Was I a bit harsh in my last response? Sure. But Vipre77 has posted long rambling responses filled with speculation as to why every idea won't work (with no basis), adding in long off topic tid bits, (I made a left turn last week, didn't need stability control off), questioning whether people even knew whether their stability control was actually still active, and patronizing people for even wanting to find a way to disable stability control.
 
#38 ·
I mean I get what Vipre77 is trying to say. If you drive slowly and are just getting from point A to point B, the DSC system works fine. However, I can get a FWD car with winter tires and do just that. The bonus with AWD for me has always been that it adds the "fun" factor to winter driving. The problem with the way DSC is implemented in this car is that it makes the behavior of the car unpredictable if you are driving in an "engaging" manner. If you want to have some fun in the snow, DSC will put a stop to that party. Where the safety issue comes into play is when, for example, your car starts to slide and you know you can power out and correct the slide/skid. DSC will not allow this as it will cut torque and it will actually induce understeer. You have to brake, regain traction, and continue on your merry way. I simply prefer having the ability to make that decision on my own.
 
#41 ·
Vipre, I don't think anyone is trying to argue that driving with DSC off is safer all the time. The system as designed can be useful and improve safety. But what you are failing to understand is the shortcoming of this system in winter conditions. I will give you just one example that I experience quite often. By the park I drive my dogs to, there is a 90 degree sweeping banked left hand turn. When it snows, this road gets pretty nasty as it is in the country in a not highly trafficked area. When you enter this turn and the car starts to slide (in the direction of the banking), you could EASILY power out and maintain a straight line through the turn. However, the DSC system in this car simply does not allow this to happen. It will cut enough power that you will continue down the embankment. The only way to recover in the cx-3 is to slow down even more, but in slippery/icy situations this response is not always optimal. The safety nannies serve a purpose, but I should be allowed to turn them off.
 
#42 ·
It doesn’t really make any difference to me what people choose to do as long as somebody who’s pushing the boundaries doesn’t collect one of my daughters or myself while out minding our own business. However, I think Vipre has got it more right than anybody trying to disable these highly effective safety systems. When conditions are made difficult by snow I suggest the best course is fit winter tyres and leave the VSC/TRC on. IMHO.
 
#44 ·
When conditions are made difficult by snow I suggest the best course is fit winter tyres and leave the VSC/TRC on. IMHO.
I have stated multiple times in multiple threads that winter tires are critical for safe winter driving. I have dedicated winters on my CX-3. I also have a lot of experience with winter driving in many different types of vehicles. In my current stable we have a 2005 Speed Miata (RWD), 1989 Jeep Comanche (4WD), 2007 Hyundai Accent (FWD), 2016 CX-3 (AWD), and a 2017 V60 (AWD). I don't know what it takes for someone to acknowledge that the programming for the DSC MAY NOT BE HELPFUL in certain conditions. In the V60, you also can not turn off DSC. However, you can lower its level of intervention by setting it to Sport Mode. And guess what, I have never had the car cut power to the extremes that the CX-3 goes to. And this is NOT due to the car being more powerful and feeling different, as Vipre mentioned earlier. It is simply better programming, which gives me more confidence in winter driving because it doesn't limit how I CHOOSE to respond to the given road conditions.

After driving the Jeep and CX-3 back to back in the winter, I know full well the advantages of modern safety systems. However, lets not be naive and fail to acknowledge they have limitations.
 
#43 ·
Interesting read over a couple beers (as I’m doing now lol). For this subject I think it’s just each to their own. There’s good and bad points depending on the driver’s experience and confidence.

I don’t have much experience in a smaller vehicle as all of my previous ones have been bigger selectable 4x4’s that can switch on the fly.

That being said, I’ve seen SO many 4x4’s rolled or in a ditch because people cannot drive to the conditions even with or without the technology. It didn’t help them either way.

Black ice, slush, deep snow doesn’t care who you are so, bottom line is, if you drive like an idiot, winter is going to get you.

If you’re confident with disabling safety features and can handle it, great! You’re probably safer to you and everyone else. I always turned off the safety’s in a 4x4 but like to have them turned on in an AWD.

There’s no right or wrong was as anyone can be screwed by over-confidence.

“Why can’t we just all get along?” -Jack Nicholson, 1996 Mars Attacks
:D
 
#46 ·
I guess I fall into the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" category. If the car is driving normally with all safety mechanisms engaged, I say "Leave It Alone!" When you start experimenting and pushing the boundaries of what is intended and what is designed into the car, I just hope you stay the Hell away from public roads. I might be walking alongside one of them with my dog beside me and I really don't want to be taken out quite yet (but at 82, I would guess that mother nature will do the job herself one of these days without your help.
 
#52 ·
Calling somebody dense doesn’t get filtered in any forum. Look, the f word doesn’t bother me but it does bother some people and it just isn’t appropriate no matter how frustrating you find something. If you didn’t notice whether it got sensored, you should have but you wouldn’t need to if you didn’t write it. A forum is a place for discussion and in some cases people don’t realise the implications of what they propose. I don’t think the VSC should be disabled either albeit I wouldn’t get so emotive about it unless of course someone gets hurt. Certainly here, if a vehicle got damaged and people got injured, there could be insurance and criminal implications if it was found that one of the safety systems was disabled.

Anyway, let’s draw a line under it and get back to virtual tyre kicking. We should be having a beer, not falling out. Nothing matters that much.
 
#58 ·
You are right, calling someone dense doesn't get filtered. ;) A forum indeed is a place for discussion, and threads have specific topics, this one was about figuring out HOW to disable stability control, not whether a bunch of old codgers thought it was a good idea or not. At this point it's become people having to justify wanting to do what would be an extremely basic "mod" on pretty much any other car forum. If someone suggested putting a snail or even some cams in this car I think some of your heads would explode. (By the way aftermarket ND MX-5 cams will work in a CX-3, already talked to Orange Virus about it.)
 
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